Tickets Available

The Clash of Civilisations

Daniel Pipes v Ken Livingstone

Starts 9.30am Saturday 20th January, London

If you would like tickets please email me

drunkenblogging AT

4 Responses to “Tickets Available”

  1. # Anonymous Derius


    Are you going?

    I've already got my ticket!  

  2. # Blogger jonz


    I am really quite gutted. I got tickets but I can't attend because of an unavoidable family function. You have no idea how frustrating that is!

    I envy you!

    However to make up for it I would like to get a bunch of us together again soon and you and the rest of the infidels can tell all about the day.  

  3. # Anonymous Derius

    Here's my summary of the conference , which I wrote for another blog. I thought I would post it here as well.

    Ken Livingstone and Multiculturalism

    It was with some trepidation that I attended the “Clash of Civilisations or Civilisation versus Barbarism conference” in London. One of my main reasons for doing so was that a number of seminars were to discuss multiculturalism, and whether it is working in this country today. My views on the subject seem to be distant from the general opinion of its validity.

    Multiculturalism is in essence the ideology that all cultures and all belief systems associated with those cultures are of equal worth, and therefore no cross cultural judgements can be made. It is the child of moral relativism, and has a strong following with the academic elite and politicians in the West today. Ken Livingstone, in particular, seems particularly keen to push forward his vision of a multicultural London, and it was he who had organised the conference I was attending.

    As all cultures are considered of equal worth, it makes any positive judgement towards a culture incorrect by definition, as all cultures are equal. Therefore, under multiculturalism, Western Values concerning freedom of speech and religion are apparently no better or worse than Islamic teachings, which state that blasphemy and apostasy (leaving Islam) should be punishable by death. This is why I believe multiculturalism to be morally bankrupt.

    Multiculturalism also states that no cross cultural judgements should be made, as all cultures are equal, and yet deciding that all cultures are equal is in itself a cross cultural judgement. Therefore, multiculturalism actually contradicts itself. Multiculturalism is also dangerous as it does not state the belief that all cultures are equal, but instead states that it is a fact that all cultures are equal. Therefore, if you disagree, you are wrong by definition. There is therefore no room for discussion, or to agree to disagree, and so, if you challenge multiculturalism, you are seen as a cultural bigot. This is why I believe multiculturalism to also be intellectually bankrupt.

    However, in Ken Livingstone’s own speech at the conference, he specifically stated that multiculturalism did not allow all cultural practices to be practised. Therefore, he was in fact saying that Western values should supersede other values in certain areas, which actually goes against multiculturalism. As much as I was happy with this statement, it then became clear to me that Ken was a little confused, as he was supposed to be defending multiculturalism and not dismissing it. It then occurred to me that perhaps Ken has another definition of “multiculturalism”, so I expected him to go on and define what he considered “multiculturalism” to be. Not surprisingly, he never actually defined it, and nor did any other speaker at the conference, so it was certainly the first conference that I have attended where nobody actually knew what exactly was being discussed.

    I therefore had to listen intently to what Ken Livingstone said that would highlight his vision to me. Two statements stood out. The first was words to the effect that “everybody wants the same things in life”, and the other was the idea that we should all base our society on our shared values. I will address these things in turn.

    Mohammad Atta, to name one of many examples, wanted to martyr himself in the cause of Allah. Does everybody therefore want to be martyred in the cause of Allah? I certainly don’t, but apparently I do if you believe that everybody wants the same things in life. Does every adult want female children to be circumcised by that particularly unpleasant form of genital mutilation? Some clearly do, otherwise why does this practice occur in the first place? Does that therefore mean that all adults believe in this practice? Of course not. Therefore, Mr Livingstone’s first statement was in fact probably the most ridiculous statement I heard at the conference, with the exception of his assertion that the Cold War was the fault of the West, and nothing to do with Stalin, Communism or the fact that the USSR invaded half of Europe.

    As for his statement that we should base our society on our shared values, well what values would they be? What values do I share with those that believe that the Sharia should be installed in this country? And if I do happen to share any values with them, whatever they may be, how could they be enough to decide on all political decisions that need to be made? Whose values should take precedence when there is a conflict? It was simply more half baked ideas that had only been quarter way thought out.

    Still Ken at least realises that if an argument is inherently flawed but it is repeated enough times, then people will begin to believe it. Another two hour seminar on multiculturalism at the conference that was put on later in the day had all three panelists speaking in favour of multiculturalism, and none against. Clearly the tactic of indoctrination that Communists have used in the past is deemed acceptable by Communist Ken.

    Another seminar I attended at the conference discussed the question “Is there an Islamic Threat?” I was rather expecting the debate to evolve around how serious the threat was rather than a complete denial that there was one in the first place, but even this meagre expectation wasn’t met. Tariq “Taquiyya” Ramadan and Salma Yaqoob were of the opinion that the Islamic threat is non existent, and any attacks that occur are the result of aggressive Western foreign policy. Well, what about the attacks on Buddhists in southern Thailand, the Jihad being waged against Christians in Darfur, the destruction of churches in Indonesia or the attacks on Hindus in Bangladesh, to name a few, all committed by Muslims? How exactly the Hindus in Bangladesh or the other groups I have just mentioned are linked to Western foreign policy was not made in any way clear.

    The caption “We have come a long way, but we still have a long way to go” was repeatedly flashed on the screen. Whether this was an attempt at subliminal messaging is not clear, but in any case it had the opposite effect on me. I instead began to wonder exactly where we were going, and whether we have actually got a long way to go before we reach it. I then thought of Lebanon, which forty years ago, had a liberal government and a Christian majority, and a society that is similar to our own. I then thought about how Lebanon is now, after forty years of widespread Islamic immigration. How many Christians there now are celebrating their country’s diversity, and do not instead wish that they could turn back the clock and have things as they were back in the 1960’s? I then realised that we were heading towards a situation similar to Lebanon’s, and we don’t have very far to go before we get there.

    Ken Livingstone was clearly hoping that the arguments presented at the conference would be enough to make any rational British citizen want to forget our Western cultural heritage, our values and our achievements, and instead embrace his vision of an undefined multicultural nation.

    I wasn’t convinced. Are you?  

  4. # Blogger jonz

    Well, no real surprise there from Kommie Ken... But what happened with Daniel Pipes?  

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